Georgia:

Hello, and welcome back to season four of ‘Watt's up with energy?’. I'm Georgia, Content Manager here at gridX.

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Today, I have Tina Hadler, head of sales at Theben Smart Energy, joining me to talk more about the world of 14a.

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So let's just dive right in.

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Tina, thanks so much for joining me.

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Tina:

Yeah, thanks for having me.

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Georgia:

And before we start, if you can just tell us a little bit about yourself and then about Theben Smart Energy as well.

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Tina:

Sure. Okay, starting with me and my person.

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So I joined Theben two and a half years ago as the Head of Sales. But within that topic, so the whole smart meter industry, the whole digitization of the energy industry is something that is in my focus for already 10 years now.

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When I finished university, I was joining a consulting company, and I was directly diving into the smart meter law frame that was recently about to be published.

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And for the ones in the German market, it was the Messstellenbetriebsgesetz, and there was back then the starting point for getting the digitization in the low voltage area of our grid.

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And from that moment on, I was really focused on diving deeper into that because I figured out, okay, there is a lot of transparency lacking in our energy supply system. And when I was working with the clients, there were mainly utilities and regional energy suppliers.

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They were lacking of almost everything that was coming along with IT, digitization and anything that is apart from their day-to-day business.

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And so I got kind of focused on that, and was not only working in Germany, but also working in the UK in that smart meter rollout case. And we're seeing the development, but also the heavy delays that we were also facing through a lot of years.

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And there was a reason why I was not continuing the work in the consulting industry, but was going, if you want to say so, behind the meter.

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And I was working for a start up in the home energy management system.

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And I was working there mainly on the question of how these energy optimization inside a building could be integrated in the energy market.

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And that energy integration or that energy market integration was then directly leading me back to the smart meter topic.

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And with these projects that I was leading in that start up, the contact got to Theben, and that's where these paths were crossing. And so I ended up in Theben.

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Georgia:

Nice. And then you said the smart meter rollout and some of the hangups there, did you mean in the UK?

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I know the Germany one has not been fantastic, but did you mean the UK or Germany?

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Tina:

No, no, no.

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Georgia:

I mean the German one. I mean the German one exactly, because we were starting in the German market.

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And then I was in a project with a consulting company, and they were sending me to the UK for thinking about this process excellence from an industry, from an economy where the smart meter rollout is already a bit further developed, like it was in Germany back then.

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So because they were already with their installed base way ahead of the ones that we've been seeing in Germany.

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And so the idea was transferring that experience to the German market, but to that time, nobody was really interested, because they were still sorting the basis and the prerequisites of the rollout that we're seeing today.

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Georgia:

Okay. And then could you explain a little bit about what Theben does?

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And Theben Smart Energy, because then there is just Theben, right?

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Tina:

Exactly. So the team itself, so the Theben Inc, it's a company that has been found more than 100 years ago.

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Yes, it's like this German Mittelstand, so like this German medium-sized company, where the German industry is kind of famous for.

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And the founder, Paul Schwenk, he was back then already thinking about energy to the right time.

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And he was inventing or having like a patent on a time switch, a light switch that you're using, for example, in your multi-tenant house.

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For example, when you're opening your front door and you're switching on the light, you can go up into like the third or the fourth or the fifth floor, and the light is still on.

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And then after a few minutes, it switches automatically off.

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That's what Theben back then invented. So that company already thought very early about like that mechanical switching units.

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And through the years, through the centuries, Thebn proved that they could also go along with that innovation because they went from mechanical switching to electronic switching. And then, of course, nowadays, we're thinking about like this digital switching units.

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And that's where the Theben Smart Energy started. Because back then, there were already time switch units in the portfolio of Tiven.

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And so with that, there were already connections to utilities, to energy suppliers. And within that, there were already back then in the 2010 years, discussions about energy management, about the question of how to get that energy being produced locally, how to get that more optimized or better optimized.

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And that's when the whole basis started to dig into that.

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And then the energy directive on an EU level was published.

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And then that German law frame, so that smart meter rollout levy, was published.

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And within that team decided to not only go in the path of digitization, but also that path of cybersecurity, because that's another very important pillar of that transition, basically.

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So yeah, so the Theben is more or less our mother company, and we are kind of like the new startup inside the company that is now focusing on that smart metering or smart grid business with that smart meter gateway and these control units.

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Georgia:

Does the word Theben, because I would have assumed that was the name of the founder, but no, it's not.

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Tina:

And the name of the founder was, as I mentioned, Paul Schwenk.

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But Theben was going back to the idea of who invented time and the old Egypt.

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So because Theben was the was the capital of the old Egypt, and they invented the time or the idea of time back then.

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And so and that's why the company changed to Theben.

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Georgia:

Okay. That is fascinating.

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When I first heard about Theben just here in the office, and then when we were talking about different people to reach out to for the podcast, I completely thought Theben was a person for the longest time.

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And then I was like, I'm going to call Theben.

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And people were like, but who at Theben?

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And I was like, no, just Theben. Oh, Theben is a company. I got it. I'm not calling.

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Tina:

Yeah, no worries about that.

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Because, I mean, you can see there, it's like in the DNA of the company.

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And that's why we decided to not switch our company name, but just amending it or extending it to that smart energy part to make it more precise. What is the vision that we are following?

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Georgia:

Interesting. Okay. And then, how does paragraph 14a fit into all of this with you guys?

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I mean, I feel like I already see how it does, but for the listeners, anyone just now tuning in?

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Tina:

Yeah, of course.

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So yeah, as I already mentioned, our DNA is more based in that time switch or building automation. We were not like a company that has their DNA in the metering part.

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So we were never measuring the energy itself or metering it, but we were more focused in controlling it.

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So when we started that whole smart meter gateway, communication part and sector within that cyber security requirements, with like this high complexity of IT infrastructure, it was directly clear that when we're developing our portfolio, it will be that controlling part.

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And it was already clear back then that the smart meter rollout will be a smart grid rollout anyway.

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Because the basic difference between the smart meter rollout that we're seeing in Germany in comparison to other countries is that we're not only focusing on the metering part.

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So we're not only sending like the meter readings from the location where the energy got consumed or produced to like the organization that is billing it.

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But we directly thought about like a bidirectional communication path for not only sending the meter readings, but directly controlling it.

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And so for that, it was clear for us that we are also developing our portfolio into these controlling devices.

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And that's why 14a was ever since in our focus and also within our work to think about, okay, who's the competencies, who's the people that we need on board for not only having that communication competency, but also that controlling competency.

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Georgia:

Okay. And then, because 14a just came into fruition in 2024, beginning of 2024?

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Tina:

Yeah, it was by the end of 2023, when like that section or the paragraph was published.

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Georgia:

And was that in 2023, were you guys already kind of like thinking about, because I know, at least here, I just started at gridX like kind of mid-2023. And so I came in already hearing about this paragraph, but not really knowing what exactly it was going to do.

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Were you guys already kind of on the ball, knowing that there was going to be this amendment coming up?

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Tina:

I guess you can assume the question, of course. We started that development way earlier, before that.

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Georgia:

In preparation.

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Tina:

Yeah, in preparation to that, exactly, because the cycles that you need to incorporate in terms of hardware development are way longer.

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And we're just speaking about a software product.

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I don't want to blame the software development, but when I joined team, I figured out like, okay, the complexity of that hardware development leads to like a way longer development period.

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And when I joined, I already knew that these products will be part of my sales department in that days, in these days, when this paragraph is into force.

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And before that, we already had like the prototypes, we already had like the frame and the more or less 95% ready device.

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The only thing and the only thing that was missing was the certification and was like the security of the investment that we already did.

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Because when you're having like this regulation, it's ever a bet that this regulation is really coming into operation and leading to a new market.

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Georgia:

And then going off of that, how are Theben’s utilities and products, how do they help consumers align with the requirements of 14a?

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Tina:

So first of all, we're not selling our products B2C. We are a B2B company, and our customers are the metering operators, because they are the ones that are having the duty of, out of the law, to install the smart meter and also the control units.

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So when you're speaking about fulfilling the paragraph 14a, you need to think about, okay, what is happening at your grid access point?

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Because you're not only in the need of that control unit, you're also in the need of the smart meter gateway. So you're thinking about like an whole installation that is being extended by that control unit.

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So when we're speaking about, okay, how is that coming along with the customer's needs?

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It's about thinking, okay, how can they optimize their energy consumption? And how can they benefit from being a part of that energy transition?

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Georgia:

You're talking about, sorry, the end customer now, or still the one?

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Tina:

That's the end customer, because at the end, the companies that we are selling our products to, they are just like the fulfillment organizations for transforming the infrastructure that we're at the moment lacking off.

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Because back then, we had an energy supply system that was centrally organized with big power plants, with like coal or nuclear power plants that were supplying the different households, companies, et cetera, in the different voltage levels from a central way of then going down the grid voltage levels.

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And with the energy transition and with the increase of distributed energy resources, we're turning that way around, because we're having locally production but also consumption.

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But from a volatile perspective that is given by the sun or by wind, we're not having the demand and the production in the same time.

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And so for that, you need to have more transparency on what is the demand and when is the consumption and how you can match that.

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So that's why we're seeing an increase in battery storage, that why we're seeing also an increase in electric vehicles or better in extension of the use and just being mobility, but also being a mobile storage that we could use for the grid. But also the heat pumps is an important part of this electrification of our energy supply system.

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And that's why when we're speaking about that smart meter rollout or that smart grid rollout, it's a question of how we're getting more transparency in our supply system for meeting that demand to the time when we're having consumption or shifting the demand into times when we're having consumption or when we're having that production of the DERs.

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Georgia:

And then in terms of competitors, like how do you see competitors also doing this and what would set Theben apart from that?

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Tina:

So, splitting the market into two, because on one hand side is that market for the smart meter gateways. So, of course, there is competitors that we're working together in the market.

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But on one hand side, of course, when you're having a new market, you're having competitors.

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But on the other hand side, it's kind of like that co-competition, that new word that you're hearing very often. It's the same for the control devices itself.

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So of course, when we're going to do control device around 14a, you're having the ones that are coming with their proprietary solutions.

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For example, when they're having already an energy management system, and they're saying, okay, hey, we want to extend, or we want to further develop our product into that energy market or into that energy grid requirements.

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This is something where we're seeing like a competition or we're seeing like new players, or ones that are coming out of the very specific industry like we do. And then they're developing like these control units that is described in the F&N requirements book.

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And when they're speaking about their product, and they're just speaking about fulfilling these requirements.

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And that, of course, is then coming along with the offers that we're seeing in the market with the energy management system, with the device of the OEMs, but also of the side, what is the requirements of the DSO?

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So from the grid perspective, that they're asking, okay, how we can connect these two worlds together over that 14a.

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Georgia:

Okay. And then speaking of the control units, is that what you have brought with you? The little white boxes.

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Tina:

Yes. I have in front of me here the different products that we are having in our portfolio. So the basis of that is like that's the smart meter gateway.

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So at the end, it's just the communication unit, but it has different interfaces.

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And the interface that is crucially important for that 14a is the so-called CLS, Controllable Local Systems Channel, that is sitting here downside. So it's like a very unexciting ethernet port down there.

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But this is enabling, for example, like the connection between the gateway and, for example, a control unit and an energy management system.

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And that's when we're extending that gateway with the control unit.

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And that's like a second box, frankly saying.

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And these two, they are hanging down in your basement, next to each other, being connected, and then being able to get a control order of, for example, the DSO to your heat pump, for example, or through your energy management system into your consumption, now into your household, then saying like, okay, we're having here a bottleneck in our grid, in our local grid.

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You have to reduce, you have to dim your load down to 4.2 kilowatt.

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And that's what is being controlled through these two devices.

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So they are receiving that order, and they are working with it, and giving it to, or making it sure, that they are giving it securely to the installation that is sitting behind the grid access point.

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Georgia:

But you need both of those boxes to do it.

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Tina:

You need these two boxes, because this is the one that is communicating, and this is the one that's switching.

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Georgia:

Okay.

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And when it comes to the one, and you asked me before what is setting us apart from our competitors, it is how we thought about developing that controlling further in the context of the developments that we are having anyway today.

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And when we're seeing the world today, we're having an application first, a platform first approach in almost every offers that we're seeing around us.

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So for example, when you're thinking back then in inside your car, your navigation system back then was a specific box that was just being able to navigate you.

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And when you're thinking today, you're not only having like a TomTom Go with a brand, for example, that we use in Germany here a lot.

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You're not seeing it anymore. Why?

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Because it's an application that moved to the computer inside the car or inside your smartphone.

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And that's what we thought with a control module that is sitting on the Smart Meter Gateway.

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So you're not in the need of installing two boxes, but just one box.

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And that control application is sitting here inside the device.

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So there is like a platform approach on it. There is sitting that application.

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And then behind that, for example, there could be the gridBox, for example, of gridX, and then being able to communicate directly with the gateway and then controlling the device that is being sent through that 14a paragraph.

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Georgia:

Okay. And then you have three boxes, right?

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Tina:

Yes, exactly. So that's just the gateway.

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And if you're just recognizing that when I'm comparing these two.

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Georgia:

Ah, from here, I thought it was still the same one.

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Tina:

Yeah, exactly.

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And that's at the end, the thing, it should appear the same, more or less, because the intelligence is sitting inside that.

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So the module that is sitting here is like a platform approach.

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And there is that application that can be extended by other applications in the future for them being able, like your smartphone or like your whatever computer that you're using or, for example, like your TV, that is also today a carrier of apps, of applications that you're using.

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So that's kind of like the idea where we're saying like, okay, of course, we are following the frame, and we want to fulfill the requirements.

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But of course, we're taking our freedom as a company in the private industry to develop that in a way where we think like, okay, the market will develop in that direction.

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Georgia:

Okay. And is this, because you're saying that now you guys, you're moving from having to have the two boxes to just the one.

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Is that a trend that you're seeing across the market, trying to like simplify it like that?

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Tina:

Yeah, the simplification is something that we're seeing through all the discussions because the one of the main, I would not say mistakes, but let's say things that we missed to discuss is that ever since the smart meter rollout had been seen as a logistic project, but as an IT project, because it is an IT project where you have to extend your whole energy or your IT infrastructure.

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And when we thought about that control module that I showed you before, then we were thinking of simplifying the hardware approach for not thinking about, okay, I have to install, I have to maintain, I have to store two devices instead of just one.

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And then having all the time like an over-the-air or remote access, for them being able to extend that, to administrate that. And that was the idea.

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There is approaches that is going in a similar direction, but not necessarily of pulling everything together. I guess for that, the market is still in that very storming phase, and we need to see what is the offer, where the market is easy to adopt to.

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But we see good feedback, we see a lot of good planning with us, with our product. But of course, on the other hand side, it is a commodity approach.

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The gateway or the smart meter rollout is a commodity, and it's a commodity project. And so for that, you ever need to think about interoperability and compatibility.

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And that's why you see these two boxes, because at the end, the gateway is a commodity, the control unit is a commodity.

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And when you're putting all these together, you're losing kind of like this idea of being a commodity. And that's something where of course us as Theben, we need to think about the right arguments for overcoming these arguments of a commodity.

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But that's where us, or that's where the arguments of us being a private company needs to be stronger or needs to be more convincing, like any other product.

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Georgia:

And how then have you had to adapt your sales strategy to go along with all of this, I guess, or to work with these changes?

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Tina:

Yeah, so at the moment, our day-to-day sales strategy is, of course, mainly focused or still mainly focused on the Smart Meter Gateway, because that's the process where most of our clients are familiar or getting familiar with.

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And the whole world of that 14a and fulfilling that and thinking about the hardware strategy is still new to all of the company, either when you're speaking to like the start-ups or to that very conservative and traditional utilities.

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It's, to the both of them, it's new processes.

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And the sales strategy there is, of course, explaining a lot and being able to cut down the complexity into little steps, into tiny steps, into projects, piloting, into being able to explain, okay, what is the benefit?

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What is the downside?

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What is the inter-operation with the system part that I was mentioning before, that you need to be able to have not only the right hardware partner, but also the right software partner at hand, for them having a system that is working when it comes to an operation, and when it comes to an increase in the rollout.

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Georgia:

Okay, and this is, we're only talking about the German market still, or is this European?

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Tina:

At the moment, we are in a special situation in Europe.

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And yes, we're going like the German Sonderweg with that smart meter rollout, because as I mentioned before, the other markets, they were focusing on the metering side.

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So, and it's kind of like a comparison of apple and oranges, that the other companies, for example, Italy, they were doing the smart meter rollout, because they had like a big lack of transparency in their grid and having a lot of losses in their energy bills, because the neighbor of the one, they were stealing like the power.

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And so, when they did the smart meter rollout, it was an easy business case.

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For example, like in the Nordics, there is very low density in population, and it's very afforded to drive around by cars and do the meter readings, then just having like a remote meter reading system.

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And that's why the smart meter rollout there was also kind of easy.

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And the same like in the UK, but directly focusing on that controlling path or that controlling channels. That is something where Germany ever wanted to be a pioneer.

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But of course, the complexity behind that and the necessary competencies in the IT field, that was, I would say, a bit underestimated. What is the interfaces? What is the dependencies? That you had to think about. And at the end, you could definitely criticize what is the role of the regulator? And what detail, what level of detail should a regulator – regulate? Or what is the things that a market at the end would solve?

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And that's at the end of the discussion that we're having here, because at the end, we're having that very critical cybersecurity, because at the end, if there's any threat to an energy supply system, we could face a blackout.

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But on the other hand side, when you're having this huge complexity, then. You're hindering the market developing in a free way.

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So and that's kind of like the trade off that we're seeing every day, especially when it comes to that sales strategy, because of course, when you're speaking with them, they're asking you, hey, what is the thing that we should do next?

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Yeah.

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So where to invest, maybe the next project or to prioritize. And of course, sometimes it's not investing into the hardware.

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Georgia:

Okay.

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Would you say then that 14a coming about was a result of just, trying to think how to word this, regulators seeing the need? Or was it like the natural progression of the market?

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Like the market was kind of already pushing us towards needing this emergency dimming control? Or was it just something that German regulators thought of?

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Tina:

It was driven by the grid, especially by the distribution grids.

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That's why the role being in duty of rolling that out is the metering operator. And within the liberalization of the energy market, that role was being cut out as an extra role.

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Apart from that metering operator, so it was before then, it was a part of the DSO.

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And so it got an extra role, a distinct role.

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And that role is now being able to be fulfilled in two ways.

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So on one hand side, there is this default metering operator, that is, for example, your utility, when you're speaking about here in Munich.

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So that is like the Stadtwerk Munich, so the utility of Munich.

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And they have these roles or they have these roles inside their own organization.

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So they have the DSO, they have the energy supplier role, and now they have that default meter operator.

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And they are in charge of rolling all these smart meters out in the market. But of course, like in every market, it is not working without competition. And that's why there is like this competitive meter operator.

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And they can build around that whole smart meter rollout, that whole smart grid topic, their own business model.

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That's why we're seeing, for example, like companies, like ENPAL or 1KOMMA5 or other companies, they are also incorporating the smart meter topic inside of their business models, because they're seeing like, okay, for going along in that market, we need to think about that smart meter, although that they maybe never wanted to think about that, but they see, okay, if we want to approach in the market, we need to think about that.

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And that's why they took over the role in different constructions of this competitive meter operator.

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Georgia:

Okay, and then, do you have any examples where Theben’s smart energy solutions have helped end consumers understand and comply with 14a?

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Tina:

So the end customer itself is a view, a point of view that is in our day-to-day work very often lacking. So, but anyway, we are involved in different projects.

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For example, we had a project with a utility in the very north, where we were installing together with that utility 50 control units.

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So like this integrated one, as I showed you before, in 50 different households. And that was in preparation of that 14a being published.

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And of course, these projects showed us a lot about the reaction and about the gap that is between our very specific and complex world and the world where the end customers are still in.

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Although that they are highly motivated, they very often high levels of frustration being reached, because it was not working in a way and they had to repeat the installation.

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And they were not seeing the results that were promised at the starting point of the project.

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So there is a lot of discussion, there's a lot of explanation that we need to do if we want to have these control units being spread wider in the market and being widely accepted inside the society.

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Georgia:

And do you find just like the average everyday end consumer even knows what this is? Or is it mainly like that person who has the solar panel, the EV, the heat pump, like super into green energy, or is even just the lay person know?

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Tina:

I don't think that there is a necessity that if we're going now out of the street and asking somebody, hey, you have an idea what smart metering is.

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Then maybe you will get a rough idea what it might be.

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But I don't know if it's necessary that somebody is able to explain what is a 14a paragraph in a very detailed way.

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On the other hand side, we need to think more about what is the benefit out of that.

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So for example, when they are knowing out of the paragraph 14a, so that their benefit of reduced grid fees, for example, that they could benefit of special tariffs.

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The energy bill in a whole could be reduced.

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So and that's kind of like the benefits that the people should connect when they are hearing the smart meter rollout, when they're hearing the transition of our energy supply system.

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And when I'm thinking of or when I'm speaking with my friends or with my family, I'm trying to get like parallelities or get like pictures that are easy to understand.

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And for example, when you're thinking about the 14a, for me, it's kind of like the airbag of our grid in a car, and you don't want that your airbag in your car is being in use.

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Because if your airbag is being in use, you had an accident.

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And you don't want to have an accident.

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So that's why you're building a lot of assistance systems, etc. around in your car for being secure that, of course, the last part, the last resort that you're having is the 14a.

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And that's where we are at the moment, that we're having that 14a, and we're starting with that.

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But the customer itself does not need to understand, okay, what is the paragraph itself?

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They just need to understand that they are benefiting from something.

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And little by little, that this whole energy system ends transferring into a system when they are moving their demand into a period where we're having high consumption or when they're storing it, that they could benefit from that.

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And there's a whole idea behind that.

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Georgia:

Okay. I really like your airbag analogy, because you're right, it's something that you don't...We almost take for granted in a way, like you need it in your car, you know it's there.

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Yeah.

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You hope you'll never have to use it, but when you do have to use it, you really hope it works very well.

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Tina:

Exactly.

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Georgia:

Thank you. That actually...I don't come from an energy background, so every now and then, I need very simple analogies to help it finally click.

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Tina:

And that's the thing that our whole industry is lacking off, that we are of course speaking every day about all the details, but we're not able to explain it in easy words. And if you want these ideas, it's great ideas.

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I have so many great colleagues surrounding me, where I'm thinking like, okay, wow, you are so smart, you're so clever people, but you're not able to transfer your idea to a mass.

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And if you're not able to transfer that, and we're seeing at the moment an increasing attention on that topic, if we're not able to explain that and to get that out into the market, then it could be that this whole project of energy transition could be at risk.

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Georgia:

You should go to someone in the Bundestag with your airbag and energy.

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Tina:

I was back then.

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I was, when I was like six months at Theben, I was invited to like one of these expert rounds.

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My god, I was so super nervous.

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We'll tweet this podcast episode at somebody.

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Georgia:

What is or what are Theben Smart Energy's visions for the future of smart energy solutions in Germany, particularly in the context of evolving regulations?

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So the thing is there, the vision is on one hand side, that we want to make that whole communication in that, in that local areas, in this very distributed areas, in a numerous way as functional as possible.

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Because at the end, there is, it's like small computers sitting down in your basement. And of course, you want to rely on that.

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You want to rely that the updates that you receive, they are working, that it is a component, like a piece in a puzzle, that's maybe not the face of the beautiful character that you're doing that puzzle, but it is an important one to make that whole picture a complete one.

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Georgia:

You're really on the ball with these analogies.

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Tina:

Yeah, I try.

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Georgia:

I love it.

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Tina:

I try to, because otherwise, it's not stucking in people's hearts, I guess. And at the end, what the vision is, of course, that we could now getting successful with our control portfolio, because with the Gateway, there is already a market.

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We see roughly 1.5 million smart meter gateway installations already in the German market.

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We're going to see a doubling number or maybe more in 2025.

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And in the shadow of that, we're seeing, hopefully, already in 2025, a development of these control installations. And I hope, and I really hope, in a short-term vision, that we're being able to see our solutions working there.

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We have the first 14a certified solution with a control module so far. And of course, we want to use that. We want to help our customers in there.

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And then, of course, we already mentioned beforehand other economies outside Germany, inside Europe, but also comparable markets.

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And that's something where I hope with my team, so with my colleagues, that we could focus within 2025, 2026, little by little, in thinking about strategies, how the technology that we develop for the German market can be abstracted to other markets.

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So what is the thing? What is the basis that we could use out of that, from, for example, like the cyber security infrastructure, from these control logics that are already implemented?

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What is the things that will help other economies to get the energy transition a success?

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But of course, first of all, we need to prove that the Germany energy transition is a success, because before other economies will not directly jump on it.

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And that's like the long-term vision, where I hope Theben could play a role.

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Yeah. Theben, so the company itself, is already active in more than 60 countries worldwide. And if that could be something that will also making work for the smart energy, that would be great.

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Georgia:

Yeah, because you do see something like paragraph 14a, because I know right now it's just in Germany, but you do see it potentially, then also other countries adopting something similar?

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Tina:

So 14a itself, definitely not, because it's a very specific one.

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But the idea of controlling in the different voltage levels, or the idea of shifting demand to the times when there is consumption, that's definitely something that we're seeing in other economies anyway.

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That's why, for example, the concept of dynamic tariffs is something that is not only specific to Germany, but also in other countries.

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And I guess, due to the flexibility and the complexity in the distribution grids, that's something where different approaches needs to be discussed when it comes to something that is comparable to 14a.

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Georgia:

All right, let's get in to the rapid fire questions. What's your favorite part of working in smart energy?

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Tina:

Working with my team, working with our clients, and being part of the change and transition.

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Georgia:

Your go-to energy-saving tip for everyday life?

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Tina:

My go-to energy-saving tip? The best kilowatt hour is the one that doesn't have to be produced.

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Georgia:

I like that one.

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Because we're still, we're filming this in the middle of winter, and this will be coming out still in wintertime.

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For a winter vacation, skiing, snowboarding, or staying inside a cozy cabin?

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Tina:

Oh, I love to go skiing. Unfortunately, I didn't manage to go this season so far, because my husband, he's from Argentina, and he's not that much into skiing.

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And so for that, at the moment, it's more staying in a cozy cabin, but I really like skiing.

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Georgia:

Oh, man, you got to, my husband's Brazilian, and loves skiing.

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Tina:

He loves? What?

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Georgia:

Yeah. And it was just like, what?

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Tina:

Lucky you.

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Georgia:

But you've never skied before.

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Your favorite eco-friendly way to stay warm in winter?

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Tina:

Using a hoodie more, and yeah, getting closer together with your beloved ones.

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Georgia:

Nice.

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One energy asset you think every household should have?

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Tina:

In an household, I would love to, I would really love to have a heat pump. I would really love.

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But of course, when you're living in a multi-tenant house, you need to convince other parties.

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But I hope that's something that we're seeing more broadly in the market, because I guess it's a great technology that could change our use of and that help to reduce our dependency to fossil fuels.

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Georgia:

Yeah, but the heat pump, it needs more love.

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We just produced a blog that was how to make heat pumps sexy to the mass public.

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What is the most energy-efficient thing you've done this week?

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Tina:

The most, okay, yeah, I was, instead of, because I had to take a rental car to visit a client site.

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And very often, it's a question of taking still a combustion car.

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The rental service providers, they're not making it easy to rent the electric car. And I did anyway, although it was a big hassle yesterday.

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Through snow and charging opportunities.

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But yes, I would say this week, it was choosing definitely the EV instead of a combustion engine.

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Georgia:

Yeah, that's good.

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What was your favorite piece of energy news or innovation from 2024?

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Tina:

From 2024, I really love to see the increase and the overfulfillment of renewables being installed, especially in wind, but also solar capacity.

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Although there's a lot of critique onto our government, but they really did a great job in, yeah, having the installation quotes being fulfilled.

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And there was something that made me positive.

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Georgia:

If 14a were a character in a movie, who or what would it be?

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Tina:

Like the airbag.

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No, but maybe it's like that nerdy, sometimes a bit annoying friend that is always saying, you need to be careful.

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Georgia:

Okay, nice.

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Tina:

And everybody knows that he or she is around.

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But probably it's sometimes something where people are saying like, okay, yeah, it's not so funny with a character, but we're inviting them anyway.

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Georgia:

And then the last of the questions, because this tripped up the last person.

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If 14a had a theme song, what would it be?

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Tina:

Oh my god, it's a good question. I mean, I really love music.

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Maybe I would choose “Under Pressure”.

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Georgia:

Nice. I like that one.

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And then word association, just say the first thing that comes to your mind.

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Solar panel?

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Tina:

More balance between rooftop installation and large scale installations.

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Georgia:

Oh, nice. Battery.

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Hopefully, we see more seasonal solutions than just short term storage solutions.

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Glühwein?

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Tina:

Glühwein?

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Georgia:

Yeah.

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Tina:

I really love glühwein.

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Georgia:

You can always throw in just a nice, fun one in there.

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Smart energy?

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Tina:

Necessary.

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Georgia:

And 14a.

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Tina:

The starting point of something great.

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Georgia:

Nice.

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Well, thank you so much for joining me today.

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Tina:

Thanks for having me. It was fun.

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Georgia:

If you'd like to learn more about the world of renewable energy or energy management systems, be sure to check out our website, gridx.ai, where we produce regular blogs and glossaries about the subject.

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You can also follow us on LinkedIn, or on Twitter and Instagram @getgridX.